Acherontia atropos- Schlupfprobleme

Hi Dominik

I am having similar problems, but I am not sure why? I over wintered the pupae at around 5-10 degrees, but I noticed that one had died. I panicked and brought them indoors in January so they have been kept for the last month at around 18-20°C. I lost a futher 3, but all of the rest are alive. I can see there is some developement going on inside of the pupae, but a number of the pupae have developed abnormal dark patches. One has a dark wing on one side? They are still alive and wriggling, but I am wondering if the dark patches are going to affect the adult insect. I also have mine at a high humidity. I am not sure if it is the low temperature that has caused this or is it an infection? If anyone has any answers it would be appreciated.

Best wishes

Gary

I hope you haven't raised temperatures too quickly. If you have induced hibernation at around 5-9°C before, you should slowly raise temperatures until you finally reach more than 20°C. Raising temperatures slowly is vitally important for some hibernating species to reactivate. For example most Pieris-species will never hatch if you put them into warm rooms abruptly. They won't hatch and die eventually.

What are you to do now? I don't know, maybe you should lower temperatures back to just above 10°C again and then slowly increase temperature.

Good luck to both of you!

Ps: Der Tip, daß man die Weiterentwicklung durch langsame Temperatursteigerung einleiten sollte, ist für A. atropos im "Handbuch der Schmetterlingszucht" von E. Friedrich zu finden. Legt Euch das Buch zu, dann könnt ihr viele Verluste vermeiden!

@ Gary: I don't know if you get along with German books, but you can find valuable information about breeding of almost every European species in a book entitled "Handbuch der Schmetterlingszucht", written by Ekkehard Friedrich. This book has also been translated into a number of other languages, so you might want to take a look around in the internet.

Claude, you're my man!

Tip: Schmetterlingspuppen heißt auf English pupae.
Zum Problem: dann spielt wahrscheinlich in Deinem Fall die Lichtmenge, die Deine Raupen abbekommen haben, eine Rolle. Unter Umständen wollen sie ersteinmal eine kühle Phase, da das nachlassende Licht ihnen gemeldet hat, sie sollen Winterpäuschen machen.

Schreib' mal wie Du die Raupen vor allem hinsichtlich Beleuchtung gehalten hast. Vielleicht kann man das noch ausbügeln

Naja, ich nehme an, Du hast damit die Überwinterung induziert. Ich würde die Puppen mal für 2 Monate kühl stellen, aber nicht unter 5°C, und dann langsam die Temperatur anheben.

Vielleicht meldet sich ja noch ein erfahrenerer Schwärmerzüchter zu Wort?

Hi Werner

Many thanks for your comments and in English. I did not raise the temperature quickly as like you say it can harm them. When I moved them indoors they were kept in a larder at around 11-15°C for around three weeks. I know this for sure as I have an electronic thermometer with them and have been keeping check. For the last two weeks they have been at 18-20°C. Some of the pupae look absolutely fine and as I have mentioned you can see the eyes and antennae have formed. There were 3-4 that developed the dark areas, but it looks as though they are going to hatch shortly. I don't understand what it is? One has now become very soft so it shouldn't be long. I will let you know the outcome and I will take some photos. Was the temperature I took them down too low do you think or did I just panic unnecessarily because one died? I have reared and bred atropos numerous times before. I have a new camera now so these are for photographic purpose. I am after improving the photos I already have.

Much appreciated

Best wishes

Gary

Hi Gary!

I don't know if you were able to follow the German discussion with Dominik. His problem with his pupae may have to be ascribed to not lowering temperatures. (He has kept them constantly at 20°C but raised the larvae without additional light --> his pupae wait for the winter)

Since you have kept them cool I think everything is alright with your pupae.
Even in summer, A atropos pupae may take 30 up to 40 days until they hatch.

Furhtermore, I know for sure that it is the case with quite some other sphingidae-pupae that they get spotted and dotted all over with some sort of lentigos some five days before they hatch. I haven't heard of this with A.atropos, but why not.

Sorry bout your losses, but there are cases where you never get to know the reasons...
The low temperatures and overwintering them should have been absolutely fine. I don't think this was the cause for your losses.

Let us know the outcome!

Good luck to you, best wishes
Werner

Hi all
Just a follow up report with my atropos pupae.
It has been a total disaster nearly every pupae has tried to emerge, but have become stuck.
Two pupae have actually shed their tail parts (pupa shell) in trying to do so.
I find it most unusual as I have never witnessed any thing like this before.
I always thought atropos was quite an easy species to rear.
I have a feeling that may be the temperature dropped lower than I thought (3-5°C) on two occassions and with the combination of my panic, bringing them up to 10°C quite suddenly has caused the damage?
One male has emerged today perfectly, but I am not sure if the wing markings look a bit abnormal?
I'm sure the definition of pattern is not quite right? This insect has not flown.