tips for breeding Hyles vespertilio

Hello Bram.

I had attemped it for 4 years with different stocks from Italy, France and Swiss (totally 40-50 pices) and I never had got a mating. I had made it with different sizes of cages, different treatment of pupae (colder or warmer) and other tricks.
Other breeders inform me about matings with wild males but not in flyingcages.

The vespertilio-breed as well is really fast and not diffucult. The caterpillars will fed any Epilobium you will feed, specially angustifolia and hirsutum.

That´s all I know about vespertilio and I wish you good luck with them.
Please inform us, if you will have success with them.

Best regards.
Rudi

Hi all,

may be this also helps, although it is "old stuff":

The mating of "Celerio" was treated by Dr Lederer in his "Handbuch für den praktischen Entomologen", Band III and in 1923. Just let me summarize the crucial points:
- Mating with vespertilio is the most difficult in Celerio
-might need high temperatures (28-30 degrees C are needed for nicaea and livornica)
-should happen in a cage with 50 cm side lengths (??! I could imagine it larger)
-takes place after 11 pm (wedding flight after having taken food earlier in the night)
-takes place on the ground very often
-fresh flowers should be present (50% can be filled with sugar solution)
-fresh flowers are Selene, Echium, Salvia, Lonicera)
- males get exhausted very fast and have to feed in between the pairing activities
-12 individuals in a cage, sex ratio 1:1 males:females; possibly less males due to the high male activity
-males can be used several times if fed; longevity 6-8 days (I think this depends on the temperature and other factors)
-copula is most probable in the 2nd or 3rd night
-food uptake is very important for successful mating
-eggs vespertilio 120-160.

Much success,
Michael

-

One other note is the following I noticed while breeding D. neri.

In two cages with each one pair, the first mated quit easily. But the other male in cage 2 was not willing to mate.

When i later placed the first male in the second cage, mating occured the same night!

So change male speciemens if mating is unlikey.

Good luck,
Fillip

Hello Fillip.

Had you done this with nerii or vespertilio?

Rudi

Hello Rudi,

''One other note is the following I noticed while breeding D. neri''

This I noticed with D. neri, and with several Saturnidae-moths.

I think this might rule in general, and better is to count not on a single male, to stay for days over days in the same cage. Better is then to exchange it for another stud who is more willing to do the ''job''.

Greetings Fillip

Hello Fillip.

Maybe you´re right and this will be a new chance with vespertilio.
At the last breeding of vespertilio I tried, I had isolated the males every day from the females, and had put them together again at dusk, but I don´t saw any mating. I had done this for one week.
But I don´t changed the males. I had done them alltogether with the females in one big flyingcage.
Rudi

Some time ago I had come up with another idea of breeding such difficult Sphingids, but have never tried it. I was about doing that with my P. proserpina, but I let out all moths.
If You have got many males, how about letting out them ( of course if outside is not too cold) and trying to attract them again to the female?? Have You ever tried that?

Hello Lukasz.

You can try this method with such Saturniidae such time. The males are mostly wild to mate with the females.

But Sphingidaes will mate at the second, third night or at time they are much older. I had couples at the second week they live. And they are very wild persistend flyers.
So, at first, you will need very much males cause the most of them will get away.
And if you will try this method with specis are not native here, you maybe will generate a big problem for the future, with a new pest in a new area.
And please don´t argue with: " I will only put male in nature. That will be not a problem!" So I want answer you: You don´t really know, how the animals will act in nature with relatives specis.
It will be not a problem with vespertilio, but maybe with other specis, so pleaes don´t generalize this theme in this form.

thanks a lot and good wishes.

Rudi

Hello everybody,

I'm searching for vespertilio eggs for a long time with no success.
Does anybody know someone who has/will have eggs?
I don't know how many generations does vespertilio have, so can someone tell me when is the right time to search/ask for eggs?

Thanks for your help in advance!

Greetings,
Tamas

Hello Tamas.

The middle of June till beginning of July will be the best time for asking for eggs.
Sometimes vespertilio would make a second generation in September.

Best regards.
Rudi

In my experience pairing of this species was not difficult by common conditions, but moths somewhat did not want to lay eggs on Chamaenerion angustifolium which I offered them.

Hi Serge

Due to my experience H.vespertilio doesn't lay eggs on E. (Ch.) angustifolium! Actually they don't lay eggs on anything else but Epilobium dodonei, which is this moth's natural hostplant in Europe. The larvae feed other Epilobium species in captivity, but all pupae I have ever seen, produced on other hosts than E.dodonei, resulted shorter and more slender than those which were fed on the natural hostplant. Therefore I've cultivated and planted many of them in my garden. It's also the best for P.proserpina. Since it grows on hot, stony and dry locations it doesn't incorporate too much water during rainy weather. Its branches are hard and wooden, not green and wet like those of the other Epilobium species. So it's the dryer foodplant than all the other ones. See my added photograph! This is the Sphingid corner in my garden, where I found this first year it exists M.stellatarum, D.porcellus and P.proserpinus. The plant is still not fully grown. It's its third year now. Next summer the shrub will be about 60 - 70 cm in height and a pleasure for the eyes of all pedestrians! If you cut the seeds off before their maturity it blooms until October!

On this plant and with a little trick - try to imagine where exactly you find the larvae, on what kind plants in particular! - the females lay masses of eggs without any problems.
If you need this plant, I can send you seeds of it for free. But it takes about three years until you can use them for your larvae, because it grows slowly. Better you buy a cultivated plant that's already two years old.
If you come to the exposition at Frankfurt in November, you can tell me how many of them you want and I'll bring them along. Price is around 9 Euro each.

Another answer for Tamas: If vespertilio pupae are kept warm, they make continuously one generation after the other. In warm years we observed in the south of Switzerland four times fresh layed eggs from April until October. Of course those last ones didn't came up anymore. But just because it got colder and the foodplant (E.dodonei) disappeared. With warmth until November they had grown up as well. So right now you can find masses of larvae and eggs - all together and all instars - in their habitats.

I hope I could help you with these information.

best regards

Bernhard

[Blockierte Grafik: http://kunde7.juli.bimetal.de/bilder/sphingidenecke.jpg]