To Actias members with Papilio species

Zitat von luna moth

Swallowtails don’t really feed on banana.

it is after all only intended as a container.

Ethan,

just wait! If the butterfly is fully developed it should be no big problem.

Ethan,

just wait and see what's happen. I believe that nobody has got experiences with this matter. Whatever you're doing can be good or wrong.

Good luck!

Ulrich

Hello Ethan, I was reading through the conversation about solutions for feeding butterflies. I have used sucrose or honey and water with a pinch of salt and it works with nymphalids. But flowers such as Verbena bonariensis, lantana and buddleja are better. the solutions that I made in the past were a little random, but I was just now googling the composition of nectar and there are a number of papers where the composition and concentration of the sugars, fructose, glucose and sucrose and other components such as amino acids have been measured. I have not looked in detail at this moment, but I guess it would be sensible to try to mimic the sugar concentrations of real nectar.

Don't worry about a run of bad luck. It happens to all of us it is disappointing but keep trying.

Good luck and best wishes

Prem

Dear Ethan I don't know how much damaged your chrisalid is but I have encountedred a vid on youtube where chrisalids contained parasitic vasps inside tbeur body and a guy made a kind of surgery using a very stingy pince to extract the vasp larva from the wounded chrisalid's edge and than preventing the losing of the body water using a little droplet of superglue right above the wound after that the papilio healed and hatched properly without damage nor parasites I believe ypu may try to close the wound of the chrysalis the same way if you can merge the tissues after all this kind of glue often nowadays has been used in emergency rooms to seal human wounds as well without problems. I believe you can try.

What for the salts I have seen people using streight Gatorade or if you want to go safe make a diluited form of it to the butterflies with forced feeding.

Good luck Marco

Im sorry Ethan try to put your emerging pupas on an edge of your case over a raw tissue or a grid that will allow them to climb over the wall so that you don't risk some structure to fall over them from above and with a spot for them with space enough to open and harden their their wings.

Ethan,

Unfortunately, it sounds to me like you have a more serious issue than improper feeding or improper conditions or pesticide contamination.

There is a bacterial disease that generally affects larvae, but can kill pupae, and sometimes adults. I've seen it in papilionids frequently. There are often wing deformities with this disease, along with adult behavioral issues, refusal to feed, and adults will drop dead often within hours of emergence. One clear clue that indicates disease is this: healthy butterflies that die usually dehydrate and dry intact unless they are in very, very wet conditions. However, Lepidoptera that die of this disease usually liquify internally within about 48 hours of death, they completely disintegrate when handled-- wings pull off, legs fall off and the abdomen will become soggy and disintegrate. This is all accompanied by dark fluid that has a foul smell. This is not an uncommon disease among butterflies from large butterfly farms. It can be controlled with antibiotics during the larval stages. But sick pupae cannot be treated and emerging adults cannot be cured. It's too late, as the disease was contracted by the caterpillars.

So, put your dead butterflies in a box and see what happens. Adults affected by this disease will stink and disintegrate within a couple days, bodies will turn dark or even emit fluid.

If you see this, I can supply you with recommendations. In the meantime, do not keep the pupae very humid, certainly not wet. Do not mist them. Normal indoors humidity in the cage.

Regards,

M

M i had the same problem with caterpillars that turned dark and than liquified from a day to another before becoming still do you think that the bacteria should be already present? For instance the mom wich laid their eggs? Or the infection may arise from contact with their excrements? When the death appears how long did the caterpillars be able to live unaffectedly withput showing any sign of deseas? Are there articles regarding patogens that may affect the whole life stages of a butterfly? And how to cope with that? Thank you for your help. Marco

Much of the information for the pathology of lepidopterans is derived from the silkmoth industry (Bombyx mori) and many of the diseases are still referred to by their French names. It is important to remember that these terms are not technical / scientific terms and were in use long before the the disease-causing organisms were even known or identified.

The disease I refer to --- known as 'flacherie'--can be caused by both viruses and bacteria and, in some cases, a combination of the two. Generally, in most insect diseases, when progressed disease is accompanied by a foul odor it is assumed to be bacterial. If the infection is without a foul smell, it is assumed to be caused by other organisms. But this may not always be entirely accurate.

Causative agents:

The main causative pathogens are Streptococcus sp., Staphylococcus sp., Bacillus thuringiensis and Serratia marcescens and non-occluded viruses such as infectious flacherie virus (BmIFV) and densonucleosis virus (BmDNV). Flacherie can also be caused by the combined infection of bacteria and viruses.

Symptoms:

✔The larvae become soft and flaccid

✔The growth of affected larvae is retarded

✔larvae become inactive and vomit gut juice

✔feces becomes soft with high moisture content (sometimes larvae produce chains of fecal pellets )

✔ rectal protrusion is often observed

✔the larva's cephalothoracic region becomes translucent

Here is a link to a PDF of this information:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=…Vaw2MDXqJqK7FtyMS_ZRCRM7e

The source of infection? Many of these organisms are present in the environment in huge numbers. In the case of Staphylococcus and Streptococcus-- they are even present in the human throat and sinuses! Viruses are a different story, but can be abundant on leaves when insectivorous birds defecate on plants.

In any case, the best solution is prevention. You've heard this all before...an epidemic of these diseases can be prevented or arrested by rigid hygiene, control of free water in the rearing chambers, proper hosts that are fresh, low humidity, a method to keep feces from contact with larvae, proper temperatures, prompt removal of sick or dead individuals, low density rearing rather than crowded conditions, and start with healthy stock, if possible.

That said, you will need to clean and disinfect EVERYTHING that comes into contact with sick insects if you intend to use any of these materials in the future for rearing insects. It may be more efficient in some cases to discard materials and start with new cages, boxes, etc rather than spend time disinfecting them.

Regards,

M